Hearing Ryan talks are heating up. Sens one of the teams. Look for two parts going. Z Bad, Lehner, DeCosta, and Ceci mix.— Shawn Simpson (@SSimpsonHockey) July 31, 2012
While Simpson later admitted to spitballing the names of the prospects that the Senators would likely have to throw in to make a move on Bobby Ryan, I'm not sure how much stock I want to put into news that the Sens are still interested in the Ducks' forward.
Part of it is wishful thinking on my part.
In offering up a package featuring two to four young and controllable assets for a player who only has three years left before he qualifies for unrestricted free agency, the Senators would essentially be emptying the coffers for a three-year window to win.
While Simpson later conveyed the point that the new CBA could protect the Senators and keep Ryan under team control longer because within the league’s first CBA proposal to the NHLPA, one of its publicized tenets put harsher restrictions on when players become free agents: entry-level contracts would go from three years in length to five and players would need ten years of NHL service (regardless of age) before they would qualify for unrestricted free agency.
It’s true that the new CBA could provide this restrictive terms, that’s an awfully big risk for the Senators to assume; not to mention an even bigger concession by the NHLPA. Hell, there’s not an even a guarantee that such parameters, if agreed upon, would not be grandfathered into the league.
Of course there is a certain sentimental aspect to ‘going all in’. Being able to watch Alfie lift the Cup before his playing days are over would be the greatest experience that this franchise has ever known. But as much as it pains me to say it, sports franchises should be managed devoid of emotion. As much as I love Alfie as a player, I still cheer for the logo on the front of the jersey more than I do the name on the back.
I’ll take the cold and calculated decisions that shelve any short-term gains if it means that the organization has a bigger window of opportunity to contend in the future.
Forget that crap. They can keep Ryan. Get Doaner! Playoff warrior in his limited career obviously. Ryans soft. he already peaked. With Doan and Alfie leading the way, Look out!!! Best leadership in NHL!!!!!!!
Depending on the cost, of course, I don't know why the Sens wouldn't consider a move bringing Ryan in. I disagree that they'd "empty the coffers for a three-year window"; the kid's 25, with probably 7 good years left in his prime (assuming they can sign him to an extension). It's no guarantee that any of Ottawa's prospects will turn into the 30-goal scorer Ryan already is. I think sometimes we forget that there's a decent chance that some of our prospects (Lehner, Silfverberg, Stone, ZBad) are already at their peak values based on the promise of what they might deliver down the line. They could be busts or end up as serviceable 3rd-liners. They could also be superstars. The jury's still out. I think we'd be really happy if one of those forwards eventually turned out as good as Ryan, though. So isn't this a quantity-for-quality move in the vein of what you're always hoping for?
@Mothballsuitor While you're making excellent sense it is also very likely that Silfverberg turns into a scoring machine two, three years down the road when he finds his confidence in the league. Part of a rebuild is allowing your prospects to grow. I believe Paul MacLean is superbly skilled when it comes to weeding out the elite talent and the pretenders. We've seen it last year. He gave guys a chance and a fresh start those who didn't adapt or fit in were moved on.
I think a package of
Greening and/or Z. smith
2013 1st round pick
can land us Ryan. But is that price too high to pay as it would affect our NHL and prospect depth. But, you have to risk big to win big and maybe its time to go for it?
@T-Money No no no no way no. Ceci is a keeper and some patience with Ziba.
I like both Ceci and Z-Bad and I think both will be great players for us in the future, but I think the Ducks will ask for these two in a trade.
@T-Money The Ducks can ask all they want, they are not going to get that type of payment. Especially not after Nash was acquired by the Rangers for an absolute joke of a package. I don't believe in giving up young kids without giving them a chance to develop. Many of our prospects have a high ceiling. No need to panic about whether or not they'll reach it just yet. To top it off next year's draft class is rumoured to be very deep and the UFA class is looking mighty pretty at this point. Some of those big names may not hit the UFA market but some will and Ottawa will have a TON of money to spend both internally and externally. I understand the fans' desire to have big names and be competitive every season, but sometimes it simply takes patience to get there. No point in donating our prospects for a guy who may play here for three years and then cross the border again to play where he wanted to play all along.
Bryan Murray said this was going to be a three year rebuilding plan with some acceleration moves if they were reasonable and would help us long term. I trust in Murray and I believe MacLean can get the best out of players.
For now I am very happy to sit tight and wait for our prospects to develop into superstars or moved out. It's an exciting process!
@T-Money Nobody. Not going to happen.
I really think this is what it will cost to get Ryan in Ottawa. Look at the rest of our team, who would they want. We are not trading Spez, Michalek, Turris, Alfie, Neil, Karlsson, Cowen, or Methot. Everyone else on the team is either unproven, on the wrong side of 30, or no need to Anahiem.
The Ducks would probably want Silfverberg and/or Stone as part of the package too, but you have to think the org is very high on these two and don't want to ship them out of town.
What do you see as a real package for Ryan?
Flipside of mortgaging the future is hedging that nobody in prospect pool offers elite offensive skills that spezza and Allie show in spurts. Ask Columbus how often first line playmakers come along through fa or draft. cba will definitely give teams longer elc's and tighter player movement/salary constraints. It's how much, not if. Would be reasonable to look at bball and nfl deals as benchmarks. I don't think they'll get more years of control.
If Ryan had RFA status it would be a no brainer, but he doesn't and he's expressed interest in playing in Philly so I say emphatically NO. Also, Dylan McIlrath.
Even if those names are made up, if all it will take is a mix of two of those four, Da Costa and Zibanejad is a very small price to pay for a player like Ryan.
@mparisi79 Let's be serious here. Imagine if the Sens had a player like Ryan who they wanted to move. Would you accept an unproven #6 pick from a year ago and a small, European player who is more likely not to make the NHL than he is? It's one of the zillion "trade rumours" on twitter that are totally fabricated!
@ValiantSenators Ha... no, of course I wouldn't. In fact, given that I don't think the Sens have any roster players of value to the Ducks, I imagine the real cost in prospects to land Ryan would be very, very unpalatable to Sens fans (especially seeing what was given up for Nash). I love Ryan, and I want him on the Sens, but I wouldn't be willing to empty the cupboard for him--and I think that's what it would take if we're being serious.
I don't have any faith in this (or most) rumor whatsoever. But if two players were the cost and you had to chose from those four, those would be your two, wouldn't they?
@ValiantSenators Bishop is also a really great puck-handler--easily the best on the team. And that kind of skill helps the defensemen. Given the goalie market right now, I'd rather wait before moving anyone. Bishop's delay in dropping--which I've noticed as well--is correctable with coaching and playing time. I think we can get more for him if we're patient. Some team is going to wind up desperate. That's when we should strike.
@mparisi79 @ValiantSenators IF, that is IF Lehner outplays Bishop in training camp I am very willing to move Bishop later on for a 2nd round pick or it's equivalent. The way goalies are in demand nowadays it's always good to have loads of them. Bishop looks imposing in the net, but he is easily beat when attacking the bottom of the net as he doesn't go down as fast as is necessary at times.
@ValiantSenators Agreed, I love Lehner. I love the goaltending depth we have now and would not like to see anyone moved just yet.
I'm loathe to give up Ceci if only because our defensive prospect depth is so weak and there's going to be a need there sooner rather than later.
@mparisi79 @ValiantSenators I'd personally have an easier time giving up DaCosta and Ceci than I would Lehner and Zibanejad. I've seen Ceci play a ton for the 67's and this kid still has a lot to learn to make it to the big leagues. He's a good player, but still very raw. To be honest I am so high on Lehner that I would not include him in a trade for anyone. I believe he will be the superstar goalie this franchise has been craving for decades.
It doesn't surprise me that Robin Lehner has been rumoured in EVERY single trade rumour this year. The guy won the Calder Trophy and playoffs MVP at the age of 19. That puts him very limited and elite company! He's a bit of a headcase, but he is maturing. Letting this guy walk after one horrendous season will only do the Sens more harm than good! He's a special player. Zibanejad is a kid that is going to be looked down upon because a huge percentage of the fan base was sure we'd pick Couturier over him. When we didn't people immediately brushed ZIbanejad off as a failed pick (Karlsson anyone?). I hope people settle down and let the kid play, otherwise he'll want out or never live up to his potential here.DaCosta is hardly trade bait at this point in his career. Small, European player with very little flash to his game.
Then freshly drafted Ceci? Not going to happen the hometown crowd would have a seizure.Whoever this "source" is needs to think before he tweets.
Two to four prospects? Way too expensive.
One roster player and one prospect? Hmm.
In any event you're not going to see anything until Paulrus does his go/no-go on talent, like he did with Rundblad.